[KLUG Advocacy] Let's get this CS v. CIS v. moron v. other party started -- WAS: Oh, the joys of upgrading!

[Dirk Bartley]

On Tue, 2002-12-31 at 09:26, Adam Tauno Williams wrote:

> It is the complete lack of clue about things like version control that bug me. 
> Not that they don't know how to use CVS, but that they don't get it, even the
> "why".

The why is more tolerable then the care why.

> And having to explain to a CIS person how to read a basic UML class
> diagram?  And object inheritence in OO?  The difference between a thread and a
> process?  Constraints in relation databases (or even what the "relational" part
> of that description means)?  Seriously, why not just grab a high-school graduate
> and teach him what he needs to know,  your going to be doing it anyway, and
> he'll do it for less money and with less attitude.

This is coming from the double E that hated my engineering job and
decided to move into the information systems field.

CVS: Learned that it existed and the why from you and learned to use it
from your and other documentation.  Use it on a daily basis now.  It is
beyond wonderfully important to the work I do now.  UML class diagram? 
I suppose this is some sort of class inheritance diagram.  Don't know
what UML stands for.  Object inheritence:  Thank you "Learn C++ in 21
Days" or whatever that book was.  Thread and process:  Processes can be
spawned and threads can be compiled in.  That's the best I can do
there.  Constraints in relational databases: mostly from experiences and
what I can remember form your database presentation.

So I understand some of these things but not all.  In the net use
example, if there is more than one way to skin the cat it's OK with me. 
If a test asks how to get the ip address from my system and the accepted
answer is ifconfig and I put ip addr show, I'm a deviant, right.

Let me get back to the point here -> It's not always what you know, it's
your ability to learn.  My engineering degree's information did not help
me in my engineering work much, but the ability to learn did.  More
important were abilities to adapt socially to customers, supervisors,
peers, customers, purchasing agents, presidents, customers .... (did I
mention those annoying customers).  I feel a degree is mostly just a way
for society to put a "This person can learn" sticker on you.

The only thing I can't understand is the difference between 119 credits
which is unacceptable to employers and 120 that is because it comes with
a piece of scratch pad paper.  (So this means it's the employers I have
trouble understanding.)

The other thing that has been missing from this thread is discussing how
Information systems relates to a businesses ability to make money.  Who
cares about being able to describe object inheritance if the business
software your business uses to run is written in some form of BASIC. 
Information systems is about making businesses run more efficiently and
that is done by business information management.  (Of which my inability
to compare and contrasts threads has absolutely no bearing on.  If it
does please explain why and I'll try to prioritize learning yet another
topic.)  These important interactions between businesses and their
information can be learned best on the job or through internships.

Learning is not the result of the activity of teachers, learning is the
result of the activity of the learners.  I just like the statement and
it may fit in this thread somewhere if not here.  Teachers are just
there to keep the learners between the "lines" and inspire.  The lines
are the requirements of the course.  Inspiration is a tough nut to
crack.

Sorry for Rambling

Dirk