[KLUG Members] Re: legality

[Ian]

Pardon the aside but...

<rant>

It is so frustrating  to see people so concerned with covering
thier asses that they don't try the straight forward method of talking 
to people when you have a problem.

Maybe it is against the law to access someone's computer and leave a note
to warn them of a security risk, but you know, its sort of rude, once you
have discovered it, not to warn them.  It seems sort of silly that you
need to narc to some guys ISP, a guy who may in fact need narcing, but
who's crime may have ben being clueless or simply screwing up his
settings.  I am offended that it has become illegal, or at least
"dangerous" to talk to people when we have a problem.

As to covering you ass lest someone sue you, it doesn't work
that way.  I can literally sue anyone for whatever grounds I like however
unjustified they may be.  I can sue you for leaving a note on my computer
or for not leaving a note on my computer.  I can sue you for being on the recieving end of a DOS attack and you
could sue me for using the word "ass" three times in this email.  The US
legal system is set up so that any person make seek recourse for an
alleged wrong, no matter how unfounded, against any other person.  Sure
I'll lose and incur legal fees etc. but if I have more money than you I
can sue you till you blead and it has nothing to do with right or wrong,
and only a little to do with legal and illegal.  Obviously the futher afield you go the more likely your case is to be thrown out immediately.
But my long winded point is this.

If you are good and you do good things and you can demonstarte that you
only meant good, you'll get off (unless of course its a drug offense in
which case you are S-C-R-E-W-E-D).  Credibility counts in court.

</rant>

Pardon the rant, have a nice day.

Ian Hodur
510.261.5850

Be cheerful while you are alive. -- Phathotep, 24th Century B.C. 

On Tue, 24 Jul 2001, Peter Buxton wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 23, 2001 at 12:32:50PM -0400, Mike Williams was only 
>    escaped alone to tell thee:
> 
> > >I felt sorry for the owner of the PC so I left a text file in the
> > >c:\windows\desktop\ folder named [SECURE YOUR SYSTEM.txt] with
> > >information on how to secure their broadband connection and remove some
> > >of the worms I noticed on their system.
> 
> The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
> 
> The proper course is to notify the ISP, and possibly your own ISP so your
> complaints have greater weight. You were probably not the only user
> inconvenienced by this rogue system.
> 
> Trespass onto computers may or may not be a recognized tort under Michigan
> law, but probably is under Federal law; if you were on the phone
> wires/interstate packet network, you were operating under a Federal
> jurisdiction (remember, most Federal crimes are prosecuted in state courts).
> The obligation to trespass to prevent a greater evil is valid, but you had
> access to two entities obligated to deal with a rogue system on their
> networks with lawful Terms of Service agreements to give them the authority
> to cut irresponsible parties off.
> 
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