[KLUG Members] Re: great site to "get together" in

[Bryan J. Smith]

On Sat, 2002-04-27 at 00:38, Vernon Jenewein wrote:
> CERN... short for Conseil Europeenne pour la Recherche Nucleaire, was 
> formed in 1954.  A computer scientist , Berners-Lee originally conceived of 
> the "Web" as a method of sharing information concerning high-energy physics 
> experiments between physicists working all over the world.  This we know as 
> the World Wide Web  (www), which was developed in late 1990.  Created to 
> exchange ideas.

First off, Berners-Lee's ideas were nothing new.  His was just the first
that "took hold" with others using the Internet.

Heck by 1992, CERN received a lot of criticism for the amount of work
that was being done on web-related activities instead of their actual
purpose, particle physics.  The project was then transfered to another
organization.

> Separate from the "Internet" which was formed earlier more 
> along government ideas.

No, the "web" isn't "separate" from the "Internet" like anyone who
doesn't realize how the Internet works thinks it is.  It's just another
service out there.  There were lots of good services prior to the web,
and many still exist.  UseNet is one.  Gopher was another.  And I can
think of several others.

The Internet wasn't formed out of "government ideas."  It was funded by
the government because they were the only ones who thought packet
switching was something they could use -- the telcos wouldn't touch it. 
It was pretty much 100% US educationally driven.

> Berners-Lee worked with Cailliau to write the first Web browser and
> editor software.  They defined such things as the URL's  (Uniform
> Resource Locators), HTML, and HTTP (Hyper Text Transfer Protocol). 
> All this was created so that anyone, running any kind of OS 
> software could run Web protocols.   Their goal in mind... shared 
> information.    The whole concept of the WWW was communications between 
> various individuals with various educational levels.

A lot of other services did the same.  In fact, I would argue that
HTTP/HTML did not offer much over anything else _until_ UIC invented
Mosaic, the graphical web browser.  _That's_ when everything changed.

> I for one would rather just go to p-two.net  at their web site,
> take a look at what was posted, read.. ignore.. or contribute
> freely than to be unindated with a "members" only e-mailing.

Ideally, LUGs should use multiple methods.  At LEAP we have a Twiki
setup too (although not many people are using it).  As far as the
"members only e-mailing," that's largely to combat spam.

Maybe mailing lists are a little "legacy"?  At the same time, mailing
lists archive much "cleaner" than the web, which is very important for
archiving.  Heck, even more so is the UseNet.  In fact, I would argue
that a mailing list with a NNTP (network news transfer protocol)
interface option is the _most_ideal_.  I know Mailman supports both
setups.

> Now that JUST my personal preference.  By the way, if you read
> any posts there and offer advice or ask advice or comments, you
> do have the choice whether you want that site to e-mail you 
> a little message stating that "whom" has posted a reply to a 
> thread you are posting in.  It's strictly a smorgasboard setup..
> take what you want, and contribute when you can.  I do this when
> I want to.  sometimes more one week or more one day than others.

NNTP serves the same purpose -- actually more efficiently too, and is
very compatible with non-GUI systems.  And consumes far less bandwidth
and CPU overhead.

The problem is most people don't know the UseNet exists nor know that
NNTP is a viable solution that has been around since the '70s.  In fact,
_before_ the web, it's what people like me used!

> I guess my basic point is .. yes you already have a web site.. and yes you 
> have devised a way to send iformation back and forth between your member, 
> but since Linux is based on a free and open society, then one should be 
> free to visit such a web site as above and look, listen, and learn.... and 
> perhaps help.  Isn't help what it's all about?

I'd rather see KLUG implement a NNTP interface to Mailman.  It's not too
difficult, doesn't replace the list but only augments it, and is much
"cleaner" to view follow-ups and other details IMHO.  Plus it doesn't
eat up nearly as much bandwidth and CPU horsepower.

-- Bryan

-- 
They "sell" software "like a book" so they can sell it en masse
without a written agreement.  But if you want to "transfer" it,
they say it's not "like a book" but "licensed" under agreement.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Bryan J. Smith, SmithConcepts, Inc.   mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org
Engineers and IT Professionals     http://www.SmithConcepts.com