[KLUG Advocacy] Re: Let's get this CS v. CIS v. moron v. other party started -- The IT world needs to use lab-based testing ...

Bryan J. Smith advocacy@kalamazoolinux.org
Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:07:35 -0500 (EST)


Quoting "Robert G. Brown" <bob@acm.org>:
> I have similar experience. People with strong grounding in theory and 
> few hangups about learning the next language, tool, etc. are going to
> come out ahead.

100% agree.

> Overall, what you're recting to is, in general, a lack of practical 
> experience in "real world" development environments.  The notion of 
> rolling back a change, or seeing how things progress from version to 
> version is easily lost on people who haven't been there. I recall when
> I was required to use version control tools; it was quite an
> eye-opener!

100% agree.

Although when I talk about simply using RCS to just revision configuration files
in /etc, sysadmins either say, "that's a developers tool and useless for me" or
the one that's that don't know what RCS is say "that's stupid."

Version control is applicable almost _anywhere_!

[ Plus, I love it to catch someone changing something and not cop'ing out to it! 
 Until I show them what changed _verbatim_.  It's also nice to have a record of
_all_ changes -- so when some Windows bigot says "it's the Linux DNS, it's been
changed" I can show them _every_ change I've ever made! ]

> Again, depends on how the curriculum is defined, and the quality of
> the instruction and related components.

As always.

The difference is that in the IT world, it can offer "laboratory-based
examination" which is far more "real world" than anything you can offer in the
theory-based examination world.  So why do most "certifications" still use
multiple choice for examination???

Laziness!!!

Only Cisco, RedHat and a few others seem to agree.

> Yes, it is a good question, worhty of some "horses mouths" that are
> probably on this list.. Educators can help us by adressing these issues.

My wife has a lot of thoughts, she regularly bitches about educational
approaches.  Although she has a MS in Reading Education and BS in Elementary.

But even there, it's _laziness_.  E.g., Why aren't 9th graders who read on a 2nd
grade level interested in reading?  Because all the 2nd grade level books are
written for 2nd graders!  Boring!

> Yes, I don't think credentials matter here nearly as much as
> experience, hence my earlier crack about what TheBS holds.

I was just trying to make a point.

I don't hold my college degree over _any_ technician.  _Unless_, of course, he
calls himself an "engineer."  That's different.

> While I have more academic background than you, Adam, I have actually
> **NO** "formal" training in what may broadly be called "The computer
> industry", which does not seem to have stopped me from teaching,
> participating in (invitation-only) workshops and seminars, and
> getting papers published.

Ditto.

Unfortunately, after 4 months of unemployment, I finally swallowed my pride and
got some IT certs.  0 training, 100% self-study.  And the "self-study" wasn't so
much technical, but how to "take the test" and "according to the test, this
comes first, or this is important" BS.

> Pity the system, becasue there are demands placed on it that are very
> hard to meet well, or consistantly. I'd like to see something from
> practitioners in THAT field, however.

Agreed.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith, E.I. (BSECE)       Contact Info:  http://thebs.org
[ http://thebs.org/files/resume/BryanJonSmith_certifications.pdf ]
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