[KLUG Advocacy] Let's get this CS v. CIS v. moron v. other party started -- WAS: Oh, the joys of upgrading!

[Robert G. Brown]

Adam Tauno Williams <adam@morrison-ind.com> wrote:
>I'm not so sure it is that black and white, or what "traditional education"
>encompsases.  I attended a technical college/program and dropped out in both
>disgust and boredom.
You're right, it's not that black and white, there's a lot of grey, 
IMO mostly in two directions:

   1. Overall quailty and currency
   2. Focus.

>I'd actually like the graduates I've met to have a more "traditional"
>background.  If they understand the theory and concepts learning specific tools
>comes easy.
I have similar experience. People with strong grounding in theory and 
few hangups about learning the next language, tool, etc. are going to
come out ahead.

>It is the complete lack of clue about things like version control that bug me. 
>Not that they don't know how to use CVS, but that they don't get it, even the
>"why".
Overall, what you're recting to is, in general, a lack of practical 
experience in "real world" development environments.  The notion of 
rolling back a change, or seeing how things progress from version to 
version is easily lost on people who haven't been there. I recall when 
I was required to use version control tools; it was quite an eye-opener!

>What exactly do they spend all those months/years studying?  
Again, depends on how the curriculum is defined, and the quality of
the instruction and related components.

>I'm curious to have someone actually involved in those coarses to answer 
>that question.
Yes, it is a good question, worhty of some "horses mouths" that are probably
on this list.. Educators can help us by adressing these issues.

>I have my own theory as to the root of the problem,  but I'd like to hear from
>the horses mouth.
Let's see if some people really involved respond to this; I agree it would
be good to read something from them.

        *** EDUCATORS, it is YOUR TURN!! ***

>>And I say this as a man who holds a BSECE from a top-25 EE department
>>(according to the College Board).
>I'm just a high school "graduate"....
Yes, I don't think credentials matter here nearly as much as experience,
hence my earlier crack about what TheBS holds. While I have more academic
background than you, Adam, I have actually **NO** "formal" training in 
what may broadly be called "The computer industry", which does not seem 
to have stopped me from teaching, participating in (invitation-only)
workshops and seminars, and getting papers published.

Pity the system, becasue there are demands placed on it that are very hard
to meet well, or consistantly. I'd like to see something from practitioners
in THAT field, however.
							Regards,
							---> RGB <---