[KLUG Advocacy] Re: [KLUG Members] CIPA unconstitutional

[Adam Williams]

>I think a decent solution would be to have public terminals (out in the open,
>within plain view of the library staff) that are filtered and have a separate
>room for adults with unfiltered internet.  That should keep both sides happy.
>As for pedophiles and the like (the 14 year old with the internet porn
>addiction), those people have problems that are not related to the internet. 
>Breaking down a neighbor's door to get at something (be it money for crack,
>internet porn, or a victim) is a sign of deeper psychological problems that need
>to be dealt with.

I've read and listened to interviews with librarians concerning this
topic (in the paper, on NPR, on PBS, etc...) and almost universally they
say that this really isn't a problem.  Computers are already all out in
the open,  they have to address users concerning the content they are
viewing roughly once a month (seemed to be the consensus).  So where is
the problem?  I've been in cyber cafe's and don't see any signs with six
foot letters of fire warning not to look at adult content,  which leads
me to believe they also don't have too much of a problem.  

>Oh... and I think pedophiles in prison get more than free cable and room and
>board (the other prisoners see to that).
>>>>I would hope that most schools would keep that filtering intact.
>>>Why?
>>The W3C has defined certain meta tags that allow authors to self rate
>>their content, 
>>but you know there are pedophiles that would
>>intentionally misdirect children to their site.   

1.  This "intentionally misdirect" kind of thing is primarily an urban
legend.  Internet navigation is a very intentional thing,  I use the
'net all day for researching any number of topics and can't remember the
last time I 'stumbled onto' a pornographic site.

2,  Misleading advertising is illegal.  The solution there is to enforce
current laws.  Entrapment or coercion of a minor is also already illegal
in several contexts.

3.  I "know there are" all number of whack jobs, crazies, and perverts. 
One really doesn't want to build one's civilization with this fact as a
central premise.  There are simply more effective ways to deal with them
then living inside a cage.

>>Filtering on content
>>is hard to keep categories straight, so what side do you err on?
>>es, you can defeat them by going to anonymizer.com (so do you block
>>that URL?)  

Or services like Akamai.  Block those and watch most major web sites
stop working.  So all ALL content blockers are broken by design.

>>To filter you don't have to use a proxy.  I have used
>>commercial filtering software that boils down to being a packet sniffer
>>with auto response.  

It has to insert itself into the HTTP transaction, it is a proxy.  Thats
what a proxy is.  A transparent proxy maybe, but still a proxy.

>>When it rips off the wire a destination (IP or
>>domain name) of a banned site, it simply responds to the request first
>>before it can hit the router.  Works pretty well.

A proxy.

>>Filters should be applied.  I know I would not want my OWN access to be
>>filtered, but someone has take responsibility for society's problems.

Society needs to take responsibility for society's problems.  "Someone"
taking responsibility has never worked out very well in the past.  

>>is fine to talk about things like freedom of speech, but there is NO
>>FREEDOM.  Free speech comes at a cost. 

Everything comes at a cost.  I'll take my occasional-crazy lumps over
what my history books and news feed tell me is the alternative.

>>Without responsibility and
>>guidance too much information just becomes useless sewage and fuel for

I find all kinds of VERY useful stuff on the Internet,  which hasn't
been "guided" at all. 

>>disaster.  I am not advocating "thought police" or trying to control the

"guidance" is thought police, lets not mince words.

>>influences in media.  Some stuff needs to be categorized as garbage. It
>>is not right for young children to watch violent movies, listen to

Whats "violent"?

>>explicit lyrics 

Whats "explicit"?

>>or share racially based jokes.  

Whats "racially based"?

>>The parents are
>>ultimately responsible to see that kids understand that "it is just a
>>movie" or that there are consequences to your actions.  But, parents are>>around less and no one is there to define what norm is.  I personally
>>know a couple of families whose young teenagers have had problems with
>>pornography (both male and female).  It is so bad, 

It is bad, very bad.  I worked at a mega-church as president of the
college-ministry program for four years.   I currently work with junior
and high school students at a very small church, and with a group of
public high school students via FIRST (For Inspiration and Recognition
of Science and Technology).  We could swap horror stories all day, it is
unbelievable the mess people can make of their lives.  And I could name
a dozen kids (or they were then) that would have been much better off as
orphans than stuck with the lecherous freaks who happened to sire them. 
But the ancedotes don't really matter,  as REALLY tempting as the
'alternative' to liberal democracy seems at times - that way lies
madness by which any of our currently problems go pale.  Problems that
result in violent behaviour, etc... have roots FAR deeper than Internet
content.  The real solution is for everyone to pickup the slack of the
crappy parents, and that has to be done voluntarily on an individual
basis.

. . .
>>graphics and will seek out a child.  If the adult gets caught, big deal
>>free cable, room and board for a couple of years.  Of if you are in the
>>sacerdotal, a vacation and coverup.

No way. I've worked with the prison system.  Calling it anything like a
"vacation" is flat out nuts.  Prison is bad.  Bad enough that it may
very possibly create far more problems than it solves.  It also isn't
"free".  Most people leave prison with some robust debt to uncle sam, 
just to help them get started again.

>>Some control is necessary, if no options are volunteered, the government
>>will come to a point of implementing their own rating and ranking system
>>"for your protection".

It might, thats called a "dictorship".  Then we will have something
called a "revolution".  Despite romantic movies, revolutions tend to
really make a mess of a lot of beautiful things along the way.  But
maybe Plato and George Lucas are both right, and its just an inevitable
cycle.

>>This problem has a very wide base with residual impact with any
>>decision.  There really is no easy answer.

We agree on that.