[KLUG Advocacy] Re: New hard drives? -- compare on a per-_model_ basis ...

[Bryan J. Smith]

Quoting Jeff Palmer <somedamnfool@hotmail.com>:
> i'm liking WD.... but then again i was never bitten by any of their
> problems either....

WD has outsourced to no less than 3 different manufacturers over the years, so
quality has varied.

As such, as with most hardware manufacturers, you _must_ compare on a
per-_model_ basis.  In most cases, brand name means _squat_ because different
vendors outsource to different fabrication and assembly manufacturers.

> seagate Baracuda ATA IV is a nice drive...

Seagate is one of the rarities in the storage market.  They make most of their
own components and platters.

> the 7200 RPM Maxtors seem to be holding up well despite my general
> dislike for maxtor drives..

Maxtor is one of the largest now, thanx to their Quantum purchase.

The only time I've had "issues" with Maxtor (and Quantum for that matter) is
when I purchase a product with brand new logic.  E.g., When the Ultra66 drives
first came out, the ATA spec was _not_ final, but Maxtor/Quantum are ones to
"push the envelope" -- often in an "incompatible" way.

The other difference is that Maxtor now _rarely_ ships 4 platter drives, and
definitely _not_ for 7200rpm.  Heck, most Maxtors on the market are only 1-2
platters nowdays, very quiet and reliable.

> and my two biggest complaints about older maxtors have 
> been fixed (Really loud seeks... and slower than dog manure
> in feburary)

Sounds like a failing drive.

> and there is a maxtor in the house... (20Gb 5400 rpm) it's  so much
> better than the slightly older maxtor it replaced that there's just
> no call for it...

Probably only a single-sided, single platter (40GB platter density).  Should
last a very long time.

> personally at this state i think i'd go with one of the three...  and
> yes i used to recomend IBMs....  i never really recomended a fujitsu
> to anyone though... never trusted them... and my 45Gb 7200rpm 75GXP
> IBM has never even made a bad noise.... always works perfectly...

That's because it only has 3 platters.  Most 2-3 platter, 30-45GB IBM 75GXP
drives have been very reliable for most.

Now the 4-5 platter, 60-75GB IBM 75GXP drives just ran far too hot, squishing
4-5 platters, spinning at 7200rpm, in a 1" form-factor.  Not smart, but IBM did it.

> my dads on the other hand.........................

A 45GB IBM 75GXP, or larger?

> The IBM's seem to be be very thermal dependant....

Er, most drives are.  Cooling is _very_important_ when it comes to disk drives.
 If the hard drive is "warm," you're not cooling it enough.  If it's "hot,"
that's very bad.

If the drive is 7200rpm, then don't expect it to last.  Remember, platter heads
"float" over the drive on a cushion of air.  Increased heat means lower density
and greater pressure.  When the amounts are exacting, this is not good.

I recommend the following (in increasing preference):

  1.  case with 40CFM/80mm fan intake blowing over the drive

  2.  drive bay with multiple fan 15CFM/40mm fan intakes blowing over drive

  3.  case with 90CFM/120mm fan providing massive positive pressure

  4.  drive bay with holes (exhaust fans on back of case pull air over)

Most people do #2, and costs $10-30.

I have Antec SX600, 1000 and 1200 series cases that do #1, but they cost $40-100
(not including PS).

I also have some "cheaper" cases with #3.  Combined with dust filter, keeps the
case very clean (and muffles the noise some).  Surprisingly cheap, $5-15 for
both components (depending on if you want ball bearing or not).

And I often use #4 with 5400rpm drives in headless systems that don't have other
components that generate much heat (the exhaust fans pull enough air over).  I
can get them from Cyberguys for ~$3.

> most dead IBM's i've seen have come out of cramped cases without
> enough airflow over the drive..... seeing as it was the hottest
> running IDE drive while it was in production that doesn't seem
> like a good idea to me...  also the ones that die usuall 
> have a slightly different revision on the logic board from most of
> the ones that are still working right....  just a few observations
> that may be of use to anyone with a 75GXP series IBM deathst-..
> err uhh. deskstar.....

Makes sense if the newer logic has thermal sensitivity.

IBM has gotten "beat up" over this, some justifyable, some not, so let me review
the "ordeal":
 - BAD:  5 platters in a 1" high
 - GOOD:  Admitted it is bad (_unlike_ WD and others who IBM made drives for)

> at this point in the game though.... i would most likely buy a western
> digital... just because they're fast... have big buffers (in the JB 
> versions..... 8 Mb)  fairly easy to find..... and i've never had the 
> slightest bit of trouble with a WD

Unless, of course, you run some of the "late model" Intel (ICH) and ViA (686)
ATA southbridges that ran into the "issue" of WD _not_ implementing the full ATA
spec.  Most newer chipsets and WD drives don't have this "issue" anymore, but I
saw it as recent as a year ago.  E.g., Intel's ICH2 and latter, as well as ViA's
686B and latter, seem to have no issues.

SiS and AMD chipsets seem to be much more "tolerant" of poor hard drive ATA
implementations.  The reason SiS' are is because they are using their same,
age-old SiS5513 peripherial core (which makes Linux compatibility easy).  AMD's
reason is simply because they over-engineer for "reference design," and not so
much for high volume (i.e. a bit more costly).

Cannot vouche either way for ALi or nVidia.

> of course.. i've only ever had 4 drives die.... (non of which in my
> primary system thankfully) a Micrapolis... sorry, micropolis scsi
> drive (but i think they all died)

Had a number of FH Micropolis drives myself, Seagate manufactured OEM.  They
stopped giving 5 year warranties on those after awhile.  You just can't get the
reliability out of the form-factor.

> a seagate 1Gb IDE drive (you know... those reallly thin
> 3.5 inch ones??)  a conner 40mb (stiction/bad bearing....  it still
> tranfered dater perfectly once you finally got it to spin)

Yep, I think everyone ran into that.

> and a 2.5 gig fujitsu..... (the most modern drive i've had die on
> me and part of the reason i'm not a big fan of fujitsu drives)

Fujitsu outsources quite a bit too.  It all depends on the model.

[ Love their SPARC systems though! ]

> anyway....   also go read some reviews....

Yes!  Always check out first-hand reviews -- especially stress testing,
vibration, etc...

> the 8mb buffer WDs seen to be a good choice now.... as do the fluid
> dynamic bearing equipped 7200rpm max's....

_Beware_ of the number of platters.  WD is still shipping 4 platter 7200rpm
drives while Maxtor hasn't shipped one with more than 3 recently.

> and the seagate baracuda ata IV seems good...

Seagate makes their own components and products.

> (but i have had a seagate die on me where i haven't a WD or 
> max........ but my sample size is way to small to really mean
> anything)

Again, it all depends on the _model_.

-- 
Bryan J. Smith, E.I.             Contact Info:  http://thebs.org
A+/i-Net+/Linux+/Network+/Server+  CCNA CIWA CNA SCSA/SCWSE/SCNA
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