[KLUG Members] Re: XSLT Transforms -- SGML/DSSSL, XML/XSL and TeX typeset ...

[Bryan J. Smith]

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?>I might be very well showing my ignorance here, but isn't XML meant to re=
place
?>the much more structured SGML?

Actually, it's the opposite.  XML requires tag closure and other details
in many areas where SGML makes them optional.  Remember, XML isn't
anything special on its own, it's just a way to create extensible
markup.  If anything, it just forces some new, cleaner methodologies on
existing SGML practices and formats.

> After all, you still need an SGML processor to turn it into anything
> specific, and SGML isn't a layout language, it's another mark-up
> language like HTML.

Er, not like HTML.  Unlike HTML, who's style is rather fixed/limited,
DSSSL is the common _style_ language paired with SGML for this purpose.=20
So in the case of XML, XSL is the heir apparent to DSSSL.

Better, cleaner, newer, but essentially the same crap in a new world
order.

E.g., as of 4.0, DocBook defines both SGML/DSSSL and equivalent XML/XSL
standards.  I'm sure the former is being deprecated, as the underlying
structure of XML is, again, more strictly enforced than SGML.

> If you want to go PDF and PostScript with your data in the future I'd
> look into making a stylesheet for your data that went to XML:FO (well,
> they call it XSL:FO now).
> I might have mentioned it on the list before, but I can't stress it's
> elegance enough.  Plus, there's a nice open-sourced processor for it
> at http://xml.apache.org/fop.  My last encounter with it was at
> version 0.17 (v 0.15 to 0.17 made some good improvements), and I
> can't imagine where it is now.  I'd like to play with it again if
> given the chance.

What I'm looking for is a good, free (speech or even beer) WYSIWYM (what
you see is what you mean -- close to WYSIWYG, but better) editor for at
least DocBook XML/XSL.  Until that happens, I'm sticking with LaTeX,
because LyX ( http://www.lyx.org ) exists today.  I does some basic
DocBook/SGML, but nothing really production quality IMHO.  LyX products
beautiful, native PDFs with all the goodies -- taking 1/10th the time to
do so than with MS Word + Adobe Distiller because LaTeX's structure
translates directly into all those bookmarks, hyperrefs and other PDF
details automagically.

For those not familiar with TeX (pron. "tek"), it was developed by the
infamous Donald Kunth.  Unlike SGML/DSSSL or XML/XSL which have strict
content/style separation, TeX is content and style markup in one.=20
Backslashes (\) are the control characters for tags, which is rather
messy in today's world of markup.  It also has a never-ending spagetti
sprawl of "macros" for just about every need, most infamous is LaTeX
(pron. "la-tek").  It's a "breathing" document language with no
boundaries (or control for that matter).

But it's been around 24 years, and was really the first, open language
to allow complex equation and other capabilities (most typeset languages
at the time were proprietary).  Hence it's quick adoption by large
technical societies like the AMS and IEEE.  So one of the first
utilities for any new markup is usually to see it has at least some
conversion to and/or from at least LaTeX.

On Wed, 2003-01-15 at 20:48, Adam Williams wrote:
> Lots of documentation is distributed in "docbook" and easily chunked in
> any variety of formats from HTML to PDF.  I'm quite possibly confusing
> DocBook and SGML (I thought they were kith & kin).

Remember, XML is a template syntax, and nothing more on its own.  You
need a lot of support DTDs, schema, namespace and other details, just
for content definition.

While SGML is more of a standard content language, it's not like HTML
which, again, is both content and style -- and rather limited at both.=20
The subset of SGML known as "DocBook" is most popular, standardized by
OASIS, with DSSSL providing flexible style templates and translation
into a sprawling number of formats.

And, again, the natural evolution of DocBook is into its now preferred
XML/XSL content/stylesheet implementation.  It's just a more strict
version of SGML/DSSSL, which will probably be the sole form in OASIS'
version 5 or 6 releases.  But you still need to be wary of the subtle
differences, because different tools may only support one or the other,
even though both formats should be directly convertable between them.


--=20
Bryan J. Smith, E.I. (BSECE)       Contact Info:  http://thebs.org
[ http://thebs.org/files/resume/BryanJonSmith_certifications.pdf ]
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