[KLUG Advocacy] Let's get this CS v. CIS v. moron v. other party started -- WAS: Oh, the joys of upgrading!

[Adam Tauno Williams]

>[ Let's stop playing footsies here and just start it on ADVO! ]

But I like footsies!

>>Include me if you do, mostly I'm interested in watching this debate. 
>>Personally,  I've worked with recent graduates with either degrees - and
>>in general they are both totally useless.
>Of course traditional education is _practically_ useless.  It is by its
>very nature and focus.  Technical colleges and programs are far more
>intense, 4x the practical knowledge in 1/4th the time.

I'm not so cure it is that black and white, or what "traditional education"
encompsases.  I attended a technical college/program and dropped out in both
disgust and boredom.

I'd actually like the graduates I've met to have a more "traditional"
background.  If they understand the theory and concepts learning specific tools
comes easy.

It is the complete lack of clue about things like version control that bug me. 
Not that they don't know how to use CVS, but that they don't get it, even the
"why".  And having to explain to a CIS person how to read a basic UML class
diagram?  And object inheritence in OO?  The difference between a thread and a
process?  Constraints in relation databases (or even what the "relational" part
of that description means)?  Seriously, why not just grab a high-school graduate
and teach him what he needs to know,  your going to be doing it anyway, and
he'll do it for less money and with less attitude.

What exactly do they spend all those months/years studying?  I'm curious to have
someone actually involved in those coarses to answer that question.

I have my own theory as to the root of the problem,  but I'd like to hear from
the horses mouth.

>And I say this as a man who holds a BSECE from a top-25 EE department
>(according to the College Board).

I'm just a high school "graduate" (don't even count that honestly,  I ended with
a 3.85 GPA the same time the social worker was beating on my door about not
attending school, go figure).  I have a "UNIX Administration Certificate" from a
local community college, but thats a joke as well;  finished the last exam and
extra credit in seven minutes.

In my college experience that problem was not even so much that the instructors
were obselete themselves but the attitude of the school towards the students. 
They treated us like customers.   Endless help was available - tutoring,
extensions on assignments, leneancy on grading, etc...  It was entirely possible
to pass a class with no competence in the topic whatsoever.  Flunking someone
just didn't seem to be an option, except in the most extreme cases.  Just about
everyone in those classes should have flunked the "101:Intro to UNIX" coarse.  

So there are ~20 people out there, walking about with the same scrap of paper I
have, who are mystified by the entire concept of "cd ..".  I know becuase one
asked on the second to last day why the instructor typed that, I could barely
contain myself.  Then someone asked her to explain it again!